tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post6081289811500807674..comments2023-10-17T03:41:01.759-04:00Comments on reflexiones finales: The collapse of the redoubtsrussell1200http://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-32444667250335214632012-12-01T20:45:25.229-05:002012-12-01T20:45:25.229-05:00Subarban- I don't think that is really Fer Fal...Subarban- I don't think that is really Fer Fals arguement.<br /><br />His is more of a slow collapse argement. His point is that in that limbo land economy where it really sucks, but people can get around, the people in rural areas will find themselve to be even more of victems than the people in the central urban areas. Within the context of Argentina, and Mexico today he is somewhat correct, in so far as that sometimes has happened in bothe countries.<br /><br />In the slow collapse that is actually happening in our rural areas, you would still have gas stations and grocery stores, but you would loose your job and not be able to afford anything - and thus would be forced into the urban areas where social services were more advanced.<br /><br />There are collapse scenarios where the East Coast rural areascould do fairly well. It has some of the best, well watered farm land you can find, and much of it is laying fallow with seconary growth trees sitting on top of it, and you are still close enough to urban areas to get support from viable urban areas.<br /><br />There is really no way to know what scenarios will occur. Thus my point about the interface of luck with prepperation.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-39469683288398763772012-11-30T22:19:04.155-05:002012-11-30T22:19:04.155-05:00For a lot of Rawles Redoubt you’d have to have the...For a lot of Rawles Redoubt you’d have to have the perfect setup, including with water, good ground, and already with livestock. Not practical for most. Sorry, but I think Ferfal’s idea of staying in the city in a no kidding TEOTWAWKI situation is just plain stupid in the U.S. <br /><br />One thing to consider with Ferfal’s rural area bias is that the U.S. is not Argentina. Such areas in his country are no where near as vast as rural areas in the U.S. Probably any U.S. rural area within an hour or two of a major population center would be in trouble (depending on the highway system), but there are many places that does not apply to. At least west of the Mississippi River – probably any rural area to the east of that and you’re SOL. <br /><br />I used to live in Northern Virginia. Early this year, we moved to a fly-over state in middle America, but within reasonably driving distance to my parent’s home in rural Nebraska. If TSHTF, we will bug out to there, as will my brothers. It’s within a tank of gas, might need five gallons extra depending on the route. But it’s sort of off the beaten path as the Interstate systems go. <br /><br />At least this is what I’ve caused myself to believe over the years, hope I’m not 180 degree off. <br />Suburban Survivalisthttp://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-4189617466317261862012-11-30T21:11:56.387-05:002012-11-30T21:11:56.387-05:00John: I think that is a very good point. Fer Fal...John: I think that is a very good point. Fer Fal seems to lump all rural strategies into one pile, and Rawles, as best I can tell, has only one strategy.<br /><br />WW2 in Western Europe during the German occupation. Unless you were Jewish, the rural strategy worked pretty well. Argentina after its economic collapse, it did not work very well at all in some areas. But its not like the countryside has stopped producing for export, so it can't all be a wasteland.<br /><br />Being prepared in some fashion, or in any fashion, helps give you a better chance at getting lucky.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-33852610403290312002012-11-29T15:12:55.046-05:002012-11-29T15:12:55.046-05:00I think Rawles and Fer Fal are both right for them...I think Rawles and Fer Fal are both right for themselves and wrong in general. I'm reminded of the episode of the original Star Trek where a star is about to go supernova and all the inhabitants have escaped into the past. But they had to be adapted to the particular past the went to.<br /><br />I think in general bugging out is a bad idea. You should stick with what is familiar. Now if you have a family homestead but work in the city that is different -- or if the nuclear plant upwind from you explodes. But after TSHTF is no time to be learning a new area and way of life.John D. Wheelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203607452410210779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-43636943173984225082012-11-29T12:43:30.752-05:002012-11-29T12:43:30.752-05:00Pioneer, I may be wrong but Fer Fal always struck ...Pioneer, I may be wrong but Fer Fal always struck me as a hardcore, urban in-place guy. Possibly I am picking that up from his battles with Rawles, or maybe that is what drove him into that corner.<br /><br />My general suspicion is that much of Rawles territory is very marginal farmland without modern technology. They probably do work for herding, but the population density is still too high for that.<br /><br />What I find funny is how so many militia books have somebody deciding to invade these areas. What exactly they are finding so valuable in Wyoming or Idaho that they would cross the glove (usually it is either the U.N. or the Chinese) I am not so sure. After a collapse, if you held onto the great coastal trading hubs, and maybe Chicago-Detroit on the great lakes, everything worth getting will eventually have to come your way anyway.<br /><br />When you look at the short term (those that fit in one lifetime) dynamics of empire collapse, you can see that they are very unpredictable.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-16547087341088797002012-11-28T19:08:01.623-05:002012-11-28T19:08:01.623-05:00I happen to agree with Fer Fal. At least I always ...I happen to agree with Fer Fal. At least I always assumed a middle approach is best which I thought he did as well. Rawls' redoubt idea is crap without the infrastructure and deliveries those counties up there will die off or become something they won't recognize. There is also no where near enough of a population base to make it worth a traveling traders time if things did improve. <br /><br />As survival goes you stand a better chance of not being killed as long as your supplies hold but when you are forced to move towards the population remnants you will be severely disadvantaged.<br /><br />Just my two cents.<br /> PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-55575259419476949552012-11-28T12:43:01.531-05:002012-11-28T12:43:01.531-05:00deringolade: It works for them because they are p...deringolade: It works for them because they are pretty much of the fast total collapse being the only possible collapse scenario. Or that at least based on their fictional writings that is where they are coming from.<br /><br />To their mind nobody has supplies, so you may as well be in the middle of nowhere.<br /><br />I will concede the possiblity of their scenario, but generally think that life is too unpredictable to put all my eggs in one basket- particularly when history shows that their have been at least as many stagnations as there have been collapses.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-24036762379463131202012-11-28T12:02:53.288-05:002012-11-28T12:02:53.288-05:00Spent a couple of years during my midlife crisis i...Spent a couple of years during my midlife crisis in a small burg named Republic, WA. Was the city planner and did lots of interface with the office of then Speaker of the House Tom Foley sucking up for the funds.<br /><br />It is odd how the gun nut wackos who populate Rawls scenarios seem to forget how difficult is is to retain supply lines to the periphery. That money is needed badly in order to just keep the roads adequate and the power coming in.<br /><br />But they have this idea that they through prayin' and shootin' will be able to maintain their stocks.<br /><br />Degringoladehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893964959960977677noreply@blogger.com