tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post1829255220370429498..comments2023-10-17T03:41:01.759-04:00Comments on reflexiones finales: The Decline of Roleplayingrussell1200http://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-3204749571682182042012-02-07T06:13:33.441-05:002012-02-07T06:13:33.441-05:00TSR had more than one Napoleonic rule set even at ...TSR had more than one Napoleonic rule set even at the time I bought them (mid-1970s). They are a little booklet, and I think I may still have them burried somewhere. Check out this site for a copy of what became the Dragon.<br /><br />http://dnd.ezael.net/~snorri/Strategic_review_2<br /><br />I think I started with Empire 4 - very late in the day. The strategic-tactical concept was interesting, but could leave people sitting around watching in multi-player games.<br /><br />I lived in Baltimore for some time. A big east coast center for miniatures. I worked in the industry for a little while at the wholesale level. GW had set up their U.S. HQ in Baltimore. I could tell you some stories about them- some of the least honest (the British Company bosses) people you would ever want to run into. Because they ran their own seperate shops, which (mostly) only carried their own items, they were always a different crowd - only a little bit of intermixing. Oddly enough, the Armory (a Game Distributor of the time) used to run games and leagues, and the GW people would go over their some. GW employees bought their product by weight, and would trade for other merchandise. Not sure what happened with all that when GW tried to cut out all their U.S. distribution and was sued (and lost) over it. I had moved on by then. <br /><br />Some of the Armory people (the family members) can be seen at the unusual movie Darkon. It is funny to hear the drug addicted children complain about how their mighty empire of a gaming company (LOL- it wasn't) was stolen away from them.<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Darkon-Skip-Lipman/dp/B000XULOGQrussell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-20965420621276205702012-02-07T00:11:10.529-05:002012-02-07T00:11:10.529-05:00As I remember it it was Tricorne and I believe tha...As I remember it it was Tricorne and I believe that rule set was originally an old Ted Scrubby (Of Scrubby figures) gameset that TSR bought the rights to. I could be wrong I also seem to remember one of the guys who did the original Empire rules having something to do with Tricorne.<br /><br />That is another EGG-type take over. Empire III rules had many developers but in the end only the one mover and shaker was acknowledged for it when it was all said and done. And the money changed hands.<br /><br />Also the pole arm fetish was fueled by the SCA guys who heavily influenced the segment and speed mechanics. They loved all those different pole arm types as I remember.<br /><br />Unlike most of the old gamers who went warhammer and the 40K stuff I was the exception and went back to Napoleonics and early historical until my eyes betrayed me.<br /><br />Oh well nice to stroll down memory lane a bit.<br /><br />ThanksPioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-50837729732425050092012-02-06T18:20:59.054-05:002012-02-06T18:20:59.054-05:00Dave Arneson with his Blackmoore Campaign is gener...Dave Arneson with his Blackmoore Campaign is generally credited with the first "D&D" campaign, and his name was put on the first little booklets that came out. But as you say, it all came out of the chainmail ruleset. Even GG admitted that Arneson was not happy with the changes that were made.<br /><br />I actually bought Tactical Studies Rules' Napoleonic game (Tricolor?) before I bought the D&D box set. I was in grade school and was using plastic Airfix Napoeonics and had thumbtacked them to cardboard bases. I also had been playing Avalon Hill and SPI wargames.<br /><br />You were so close to the hotbed of D&D that it likely had a greater impact on the miniatures folks in your area than ours. In my area the big numbers were initially with the college kids who were not the typical miniature hobbiests.<br /><br />I think I still have a few of the Heritage miniatures-Orks as pigs with very strange polearms- which explains why there were so many odd pole arms (Glaive-Guisarme) cluttering the weapon charts- first seen in the Greyhawk supliment I think.<br /><br />The game was very freeform and flowing. Gygax very quickly realized that (much like IBM later with the PC) he was going to loose control of the franchise, so he with the Advanced D&D he tightened up on what was allowed under the ridiculous claim of play balance, and tournement compatibility. His version of Arneson's game was insanely chart heavy and absurd as a simulation. When GG later came out with his own rules (Earthdawn?) he pretty much proved that he had not learned anything about rules writing. If you look at the way he throws bell-curve randomization with flatline, it is not even clear GG even understood the math.<br /><br />What is funny is that the article I linked to talks about how they undid that straight jacket, and essentially made a bunch of money before they ..... lost the franchise. LOL.<br /><br />FYI - I have some 20mm moderns and have actually had some Cul De Sac style battles with light arms. The results are different than a lot people would think.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-63681691233248243032012-02-06T08:07:48.809-05:002012-02-06T08:07:48.809-05:00Russ - I need to expand on my last comment. As I r...Russ - I need to expand on my last comment. As I remember it, and somewhere around here I have the original chainmail rule sheet I was given, Jeff Perrin was the original creator. From my earliest days haunting comic book stores and small hobby shops the Midwest stores from Kansas City to Minneapolis to Osh Kosh and Chicago were all connected especially within the University system. It wasn't like it is today a wargame convention in St. Louis would bring almost the entire industry together, at least from around the country. Weekend events were held and players were coming in from States away.<br /><br />As I said I was young. Too young to have any say or weight but I remember a distinct dislike for how EGG muscled into and took over back then. Of course once I joined the military I lost touch with most of those early players. Greyhawk and Blackmoor are the early worlds that are still remembered but many used to say they were not the first worlds developed just the ones that lasted.PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-368067534520886532012-02-06T07:39:38.311-05:002012-02-06T07:39:38.311-05:00Well EGG wasn't an original DnD'er per se ...Well EGG wasn't an original DnD'er per se as DnD grew out of the old addition chainmail rules with a healthy background of SCA fighting experience as I remember it.<br /><br />I was a bit young at the time, as was the industry, but I remember the early rules discussions. Originally you had to have the miniatures to actually play DnD. After the move to Geneva and the subsequent forcing of several of the original developers out of TSR was when it became a paper only game.<br /><br />I would have to disagree with your assessment of the military crowd for that reason. When DnD was created military gaming was ALL there was, period. At about the same time as DnD was gettign started the old heritage line of Middle Earth figures was being introduced so that line was used almost exclusively for early chainmail/DnD development. DnD in effect almost killed the military miniature wargaming numbers and last time I checked it was just a small sliver of what it had once been.<br /><br />In effect companies like Grenadier and Ral Partha fed the rules of ADnD or vice versa because at first you needed the miniatures to introduce the monsters. So from many different aspects DnD killed historical wargaming taking not only the developer talent but the artistic talent as well. Miniature wargaming never really recovered from that.PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-81463919123176042912012-02-06T05:33:52.218-05:002012-02-06T05:33:52.218-05:00D&D when it was still mostly a college phenomi...D&D when it was still mostly a college phenomina was almost famously addictive. It was not infrequent to hear of undergraduates who flunked out after they spent all their time gaming.<br /><br />THe D&D of that time period was, however, very easy to get started in, at least for the players.<br /><br />Yes, my neighbors son plays D&D, but I think the author of the article notes that D&D is the core product that is the defacto fallback.<br /><br />The military minatures crowd seems to be doing O.K. They were never a fad, so they never got much past being a small sliver of a subculture anyway. I have noticed that as the group ages, the "miniatures" that they paint keep getting larger. More money, less eye strain.<br /><br />I completely agree with you on the "domain of personality" point. But that gets into some rather esoteric history. A very close look at that history would have Gygax being a lot less of a hero than he is sometimes made out to be.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2216751897705338056.post-55225333087476575972012-02-05T08:37:20.793-05:002012-02-05T08:37:20.793-05:00I don't think the variants is what killed any ...I don't think the variants is what killed any of those games really. <br /><br />Many of the early movers and shakers of the gaming world rediscovered their roots and left the table top roleplaying wave to return to actual miniature wargaming. Some went too far in one direction into the warhammer weirdness while a smaller group went back and expanded on the chainmail rules. The politics of TSR forced many early contributors out and turned it into a private domain of personality.<br /><br />Technology eventually took it's toll on all the sub sections and age did in the pure miniature wargamers. Personally when I got to the point that I needed glasses the joy of miniatures was lost for me.<br /><br />However ADnD is still played. My son does it and many online guildies from my wow days played. The computer was their dice, they didn't need a table but now have chat rooms set up in vent and the manuals are all online. <br /><br />I would disagree that todays games take less time. A guild will spend days practicing and farming to make a boss kill. If anything I believe today's gaming is more time consuming and totally ruins lives. One reason I gave it up.PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.com